Blog Entry

Retiring Posada is solid Cooperstown candidate

Posted on: January 7, 2012 3:48 pm
Edited on: January 24, 2012 8:48 pm
 
Jorge Posada, who plans to announce his retirement from baseball as a career Yankee, has better Hall of Fame credentials than you think.

Of the 15 catchers already in Cooperstown, nine have a higher batting average than Posada's .273.

But of those 15 catchers, only six have more RBI than Posada's 1,065. Only four have more home runs than Posada's 275. And only two (Yogi Berra and Bill Dickey) have more than Posada's five winning World Series rings.

Berra is the only one of the 15 who tops Posada in all four categories. Berra is actually the only one who bests Posada in all three individual categories, as well, as Johnny Bench, Gary Carter and Carlton Fisk all had lower career batting averages (Fisk was .269, Bench .267 and Carter .262).

Posada was a better hitter than you remember. His .374 on-base percentage is excellent, and so is his .474 slugging percentage. Those figures are especially excellent for a catcher. The value of an offensive catcher is huge. Posada is one of the best-hitting catchers ever. The numbers show that.

And as far as is decision to retire, that's a good one, too. CBSSports.com has confirmed the report of Sweeny Murti of WFAN that Posada's retirement plans are in the works. Murti suggested the official word would be coming down within two weeks.

Posada could have probably hung on as a lefty DH for some team, but that's a pretty limited role. No matter what his agents may say now, they did mention the possibility of Posada playing for the Mets to Mets people (maybe they agents don't want to admit it, but they did). In any case, this is the best result. Posada, 40, leaves almost all good memories with the Yankees. Hanging on for another year wouldn't have been worth it. Beyond that, his batting average might have fallen below Fisk's.


Category: MLB
Comments

Since: Jun 29, 2010
Posted on: January 20, 2012 10:03 am
 

Retiring Posada is solid Cooperstown candidate

Heres's a more legible comparison (I think) 

     

      
;  Carter (19 Season)      
;     &nbs
p;  Posada (17 Seeasons)

Hits       
;       
;     &nbs
p;    2092       
;     &nbs
p;     &nb
sp;          
;     &nbs
p;    1,664

Avg Hits     &
nbsp;     
       148     &n
bsp;     &
nbsp;     
      
;     &nbs
p;     &nb
sp;      147

HR’s    &
nbsp;        
;     &nbs
p;    324     &n
bsp;     &
nbsp;     
      
;     &nbs
p;     &nb
sp;      275

Avg Hr’s    &
nbsp;     
      
;   23     &nb
sp;     &n
bsp;     &
nbsp;     
      
;     &nbs
p;     &nb
sp;  24

RBI’s    
      
;     &nbs
p;       1,225     &n
bsp;     &
nbsp;     
      
;     &nbs
p;     &nb
sp;  1,065

AVG RBI’s    
      
;     &nbs
p;  86     &nb
sp;     &n
bsp;     &
nbsp;     
      
;     &nbs
p;     &nb
sp;  94

BA%     &n
bsp;     &
nbsp;     
      .262     &
nbsp;     
      
;     &nbs
p;     &nb
sp;     &n
bsp;     .273




Since: Jun 29, 2010
Posted on: January 20, 2012 9:21 am
 

Retiring Posada is solid Cooperstown candidate

How about a comparison between Posada and HOFer Gary Carter


Carter (19 seasons)      
;     &nbs
p;     &nb
sp;     &n
bsp;   Posada (17 seasons)

Hits     &
nbsp;     
     2,092     &n
bsp;     &
nbsp;     
      
;   1,664     &n
bsp;  
Avg Hits     &
nbsp;     
148     &n
bsp;     &
nbsp;     
      
;     147

HR     &nb
sp;     &n
bsp;      324     &n
bsp;     &
nbsp;     
      
;     275&
nbsp;

Avg HR     &nb
sp;     &n
bsp;23     
;     &nbs
p;     &nb
sp;     &n
bsp;     &
nbsp; 24

RBI     &n
bsp;     &
nbsp;     1,225     &n
bsp;     &
nbsp;     
      
;  1,065 
AVg RBI's     &nbs
p;   86     &nb
sp;     &n
bsp;     &
nbsp;     
      
;94 

BA%     &n
bsp;     &
nbsp;    .262&n
bsp;     &
nbsp;     
      
;     &nbs
p;   .273

Posada averaged more hits, HR's  and BA than Carter who is in the HOF. Case closed, Posada should be elected.




Since: Feb 19, 2007
Posted on: January 14, 2012 11:25 am
 

Retiring Posada is solid Cooperstown candidate

Blah- had a nice chart prepped. Here is the jist fo it:


He ranks:

AVG- 10 of 14, OBP-5 of 14, SLG-6 of 14, Hits- 9 of 14, HR- 5 of 14, RBI- 7 of 14, RUNS- 8 of 14.

Bob



Since: Feb 19, 2007
Posted on: January 14, 2012 11:22 am
 

Retiring Posada is solid Cooperstown candidate

Here is my take, again. If you look at Posada stats alone, he probably doesnt get in. 

Posada with 0 rings definitely doesnt get in.
Posada with 1 rings definitely doesnt get in.
Posada with 2 rings definitely doesnt get in.
Posada with 3 rings definitely doesnt get in. Probably gets mentioned  in the discussions, but thats about it.
Posada with 4 rings is probably on the ballot, but doesnt get in.
Posada with 5 rings probably gets in.
 
I know a lot of people want to discount the fact that because he played for arguably  the best team of the last 20 yrs, that that somehow diminished what the man accomplished. You cant penalize him for being on a good team. You can probably count on one hand how many catchers have FIVE Rings and FIVE All Star appearances.  The reason is that catchers normally arent that durable. Posada had some injuries, but he was overall pretty durable. And he played for the same team for 20 yrs, in the free agency era. Thats an accomplishment in itself, not hall of fame worthy on its own but will add to the intangibles discussion that will ultimately get him in.
 
 There are currently 13 MLB catchers (not including the 3 negro league catchers Gibson, Mackey, and Santop) in the hall. The below "unofficial" data came from various sources and should be pretty accurate. It shows the stats and the number in the last row is where he ranks among them. The numbers dont lie, he was very good in all offensive categories, an ranks up there with the other HOF catchers.
 

<col style="width: 48pt;" width="64" /> <col style="width: 48pt;" span="3" width="64" /> <col style="width: 48pt;" span="4" width="64" />   avg obp slg h hr rbi r Fisk 0.269 0.343 0.457 2,356 376 1,330 1,276 Berra 0.285 0.350 0.482 2,150 358 1,430 1,175 Ewing 0.303 0.351 0.456 1,625 71 883 1,129 Bench 0.267 0.345 0.476 2,048 389 1,376 1,091 Cochrane 0.320 0.419 0.478 1,652 119 832 1,041 Carter 0.262 0.335 0.439 2,092 324 1,225 1,025 Dickey 0.313 0.382 0.486 1,969 202 1,209 930 Hartnett 0.297 0.370 0.489 1,912 236 1,179 867 Ferrell 0.281 0.378 0.363 1,692 28 734 687 Bresnahan 0.279 0.386 0.377 1,252 26 530 682 Campanella 0.276 0.362 0.500 1,161 242 856 627 Lombardi 0.306 0.358 0.460 1,792 190 990 601 Schalk 0.253 0.340 0.316 1,345 11 594 579 <span style="color: #ff0000; font-family: Calibri;">Posada <span style="color: #ff0000; font-family: Arial; font-size: x-small;">0.273 <span style="color: #ff0000; font-family: Arial; font-size: x-small;">0.374 <span style="color: #ff0000; font-family: Calibri; font-size: small;">0.474 <span style="color: #ff0000; font-family: Arial; font-size: x-small;">1,664 <span style="color: #ff0000; font-family: Arial; font-size: x-small;">275 <span style="color: #ff0000; font-family: Arial; font-size: x-small;">1065 <span style="color: #ff0000; font-family: Arial; font-size: x-small;">900 Rank 10 5 6 9 5 7 8

 
  I thought about comparing him to Piazza and Pudge, but that is a different discussion.




Since: Jan 2, 2010
Posted on: January 11, 2012 9:16 pm
 

Retiring Posada is solid Cooperstown candidate

Maybe as a Veterans Committee guy precisely because Pudge and Piazza get in first screws Posada.

2013 - Biggio, Piazza
2014 - Maddux, Thomas
2015 - Johnson
2016 - Griffey Jr.
2017 - Posada?

I still got Palmeiro, Bonds, McGwire, Sosa, Clemens, Bagwell, McGriff, Sheffield, P Martinez, Smoltz, Mussina, Schilling, Kent, Raines, etc... clogging up the list. Posada won't get enough votes. The BBWAA vote doesn't work in his favor. A timing victim.
I personally agree he should be a Hall of Famer.  



Since: Jan 2, 2010
Posted on: January 11, 2012 9:04 pm
 

Retiring Posada is solid Cooperstown candidate

Catchers and 3B rarely get elected to the Hall. Posada's not better than Ivan Rodriguez and Mike Piazza. Both have higher batting averages, RBI's, HR's and hits than Posada.




Since: Apr 16, 2009
Posted on: January 11, 2012 11:41 am
 

Retiring Posada is solid Cooperstown candidate

Heyman, he benefited from the lineups he was in for all those years.  Not to take his career stats away, but lets look at it in the context of the lineup.  He was very good, but far from a HOF no matter what color stripes he wore.  Nice try, homer.



Since: Dec 28, 2007
Posted on: January 11, 2012 11:34 am
 

Retiring Posada is solid Cooperstown candidate

sorry good not great

no HOF





Since: Dec 13, 2006
Posted on: January 11, 2012 8:53 am
 

Retiring Posada is solid Cooperstown candidate

Sorry,but Posada doesn't belong in the hall. Like many have said he was a very good catcher, but benifited by playing on some great Yankee teams. Not very good defensive catcher. Just because you played for the Yankees doesn't atomaticly put you in.



Since: Jun 16, 2011
Posted on: January 10, 2012 1:30 pm
 

Retiring Posada is solid Cooperstown candidate

Posada was a great catcher NOT a good one.  Anyone who says he can't get into the Hall is a moron.  He was one of 3 Hall worthy catchers during the 90's and early 2000's.  Posada gets in, but not before Pudge and Piazza.  The Hall of Fame Committee doesn't look at all of this new bullshit mathematics - it's about what you meant to your team, performance on and off the field and where you ranked with your contemporaries.  He was one of the 3 best catchers to play the game the last 20 years.  Don't forget the rings too.


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